The question of salvation often leaves Catholics and Protestants shaking their heads at each other. To my Baptist friends, this is the easiest question in the world, and they can't understand why a Catholic may not give a quick, one-word answer to it. Here's what we can agree on, though: Jesus is the answer for our salvation. Scripture tells us, though, that there may be many different paths to salvation, so for Catholics, we depend on God's mercy to save whom He sees fit. While on earth, we can say that we are "working out our salvation in fear and trembling," as Paul describes in Phil 2:12. But, that doesn't mean that we can "earn" salvation based on our works! What do we believe? Well, you'll just have to listen to the podcast!
Deacon Tim referred to some Scripture references about what the Bible says one must do to be saved:
To play the podcast on your computer right now, click:HERE
To save for your MP3 player, right-click and save this link:Download 049_are_catholics_saved.mp3
Oh! You are going to make me link you again :o)
Posted by: Miz Booshay | January 21, 2008 at 11:46 AM
Dayenu! If G-d chooses not to allow any of us into His Kingdom, isn't what he has already done for us enough? He has given us people to love and who love us, the bread for our tables, minds with which to contemplate His goodness! Are we by focusing on the eternal acting like ungrateful children, whose parent is only as good as His last time at bat? Is it arrogance on our parts to assume heaven?
Posted by: Linda | January 22, 2008 at 03:18 PM
Hi Cindi and Deacon Tim!
Thanks for your ministry, I share your podcasts with the MOMS group at my parish through the prayerlist I host each week. I would like to share a post I wrote last May about "Are you saved" here:
http://acatholicmumclimbingthepillars.blogspot.com/2007/05/word-about-question-are-you-saved.html
Posted by: Ebeth | January 24, 2008 at 10:05 PM
I just found this blog and can already tell I'm going to love it!
Posted by: Sister Honey Bunch | January 27, 2008 at 09:28 PM
You cited several Scriptures, but you didn't cite the one in which it says "there may be many paths to salvation". When last I read my Bible, there was only one way to salvation:
Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Light, no one comes to the Father but by Me." John 14:6.
Posted by: JSU | February 08, 2008 at 11:24 PM
As the commenter befor me, I didn't read the Bible verse regarding the multiple paths unto salvation. Maybe it's this one:
"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4: 12
Why deceive people? The only thing the Bible says about how a person is saved is having faith in Christ, and Romans 10 is pretty clear, I think you should read it through:
"For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."Romans 10:13
Good Works are the fruit of the salvation we have achieved by God's grace. Good works are the fruit of the spiritual life.It is realy sad that you want to make people think they have other ways to salvation.
Posted by: Eduardo | February 09, 2008 at 02:05 AM
Reference this:
"Scripture tells us, though, that there may be many different paths to salvation"
I respectfully submit to you the following verses:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jesus Himself spoke these words, that *he that believeth NOT is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son*
Did Jesus deliberately lie, or get it wrong?
If he did not, then respectfully I must submit to you that your statement that there may be many other paths to salvation is wrong, and does not come from the spirit of God, that self same spirit that gave Jesus the very words of life.
Of course, if Jesus did get it wrong then He cannot be our saviour,for He would be a sinner, not the Holy son of God, and would require a saviour himself.. in which case all is lost, including both you and I, for all eternity.
The choice is yours and mine.. will we believe He spoke the truth....or not? will we lead others to believe He spoke the truth....or not?
Posted by: Concerned | February 09, 2008 at 03:57 AM
"Scripture tells us, though, that there may be many different paths to salvation..."
Really? That's news to Jesus and the apostles.
Posted by: Randy | February 09, 2008 at 05:08 AM
"Scripture tells us, though, that there may be many different paths to salvation,..."
Silly Jesus, He got crucified for nothing then and His Apostles were brutally murdered for nothing as well.
If your "Scripture" says that people will be saved apart from Christ, I can tell you this; you aren't reading Words from God the Holy Spirit.
Posted by: Ken Silva | February 09, 2008 at 09:59 AM
"Silly Jesus, He got crucified for nothing then and His Apostles were brutally murdered for nothing as well."
Rev. Silva can't curb his sarcasm, no matter how serious the topic. Better start taming that tongue, Ken.
Posted by: Randy | February 09, 2008 at 11:12 AM
I think we covered this on the podcast. The Catholic Church does teach that we are saved only through Jesus Christ. But how does this take place? By following a formula of words at summer camp? By caring for the least of our brothers and sisters? By consuming the Body and Blood of Jesus? There is support in the Bible for all these and more. The point is that how a particular person accesses the salvation available through Christ is not always clear. It is mysterious, but possible, that Christ saves a person who in his own mind has consciously rejected Jesus, when in actuality, deep in this person's heart, he has a connection with Jesus that is very real or is, for the purpose of salvation, real enough. We won't know what is within another person.
Posted by: Deacon Tim | February 09, 2008 at 11:42 AM
The Reverend Silva is an expert on who is going to heaven and who is not. He is the official keeper of the book of life.
While I am a Baptist pastor I do embrace Catholics as my brethren. I view our differences as a family squabble. Of course my side of the family is more right than yours :)
Bruce
Posted by: Bruce Gerencser | February 09, 2008 at 02:54 PM
>>It is mysterious, but possible, that Christ saves a person who in his own mind has consciously rejected Jesus, when in actuality, deep in this person's heart, he has a connection with Jesus that is very real or is, for the purpose of salvation, real enough. We won't know what is within another person.
This sounds mystical to me. Do you have scripture to support this?
Posted by: DT | February 09, 2008 at 04:37 PM
Bruce,
You said...
>>The Reverend Silva is an expert on who is going to heaven and who is not. He is the official keeper of the book of life.
I am also a Baptist pastor and I know Ken Silva. It seems that you don't know what you are talking about.
If you think that Catholics are brothers in the Lord you need to study your doctrine and their doctrine a little more.
http://dead-theologians.blogspot.com/2007/05/welcome-catholic-observers.html
Ignorance is understandable; foolish is not.
DT
Posted by: DT | February 09, 2008 at 04:53 PM
thirty plus years of studying doctrine.............so DT I didn't make my comment out of ignorance. That you don't like my conclusions is fine but please don't think I am ignorant.
I am sure you and the Reverend Silva have much in common. Please give Ken my love.
Correct doctrine saves no one. Propositions save no one. Jesus does.
DT why would I want to come to your site and study dead theologians? A living Saviour seems so much worth studying AND following.
I have interacted with enough Catholics to know that many Catholics follow Jesus Christ. Perhaps some don't, but then the same could be said of the Baptist tribe. (btw full disclosure I have 2 catholic daughter-in-laws, good Christian girls)
I just wanted to give a comment of support. I have no desire of debating the issue. Dueling Baptists on a Catholic site :)
Bruce
PS. I don't have to agree with Catholic doctrine to accept them as brethren..............same way I treat you Calvinists.
Posted by: Bruce Gerencser | February 09, 2008 at 09:07 PM
"DT why would I want to come to your site and study dead theologians? A living Saviour seems so much worth studying AND following."
A living Saviour and His living creatures. For if they are dead, as you claim, then what about those choosen ones of whom it is written in the Word?
For He said, and He cannot lie:
"..I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Matthew 22:32"
Posted by: Joao | February 10, 2008 at 12:02 AM
I have had enough of this!
There is a saying among non-Christians, when viewing holier than thou Christians, going for the throats of those with whom they have theological differences..."Well, it's the Christian thing to do."
Isn't it interesting, that while being attacked on this topic by all sides, Cyndi and Deacon Tim have retained both kindness and dignity in their remarks? They have not resorted to personal attacks and sarcasm, nor have they denounced anyone's closely held personal beliefs or deleted comments.
When people show you who they are...believe them.
If the commentaries that have not taken Cyndi and Tim's lead, and conducted themselves in a "Christ like" manner are not embarrassed by the behavior, they should be.
As I understand the Christian truth, Jesus was a gentle Jewish man, who championed the underdog and who called little children to his side. He would have raised a brow at anyone who suggested that a child in deepest, darkest Africa, who had never heard of Christ would be bound for hell for his unfortunate place of birth. It is a truth, that people (and Jesus was a man by all definitions) behave according to established patterns of behavior. Jesus would not have called the children to his side, while damning those destined to never hear his name due to geography. When the commentators can reconcile that truth, with their spouted views of redemption then we can have a conversation. Until then, I suggest they follow the podcasters lead.
Posted by: Linda | February 10, 2008 at 10:43 AM
Linda,
You raise the most perplexing Question we face, what about those who have never heard or known Jesus.
I have come to believe the God deals with all people in love, mercy, and justice. God will do right. I believe he will judge people according to the light they had.
Otherwise, as you have said, a person goes to hell because of being born at the wrong place, at the wrong time. Predestinarians solve the conundrum by saying "well they aren't elect" For the rest of us, we have to struggle with this issue.
Here in the West we have full light. Full disclosure. Church on every corner. Yet, we can't seem to even get the basic premise of Christianity down......Love one another.
Bruce
Posted by: Bruce Gerencser | February 10, 2008 at 11:10 AM
Linda,
Again, as I have come to know you through this podcast and blog, you have again proven to be more "Christian" than the Christians. We Christians have much to learn from our elder brother in faith, the Jewish people. Bless you for defending us!
Bruce, you are a welcome voice here on Two Edge Talk. The passion you feel for your faith is evident, yet your spirit of love for those who differ honors our Savior. Plus, I just like your sense of humor! Do your Catholic daughter-in-laws know that you are defending Catholics on a Catholic blog site - I hope you tell them; it would warm their hearts, I'm sure. Hope you also tell them about Two Edge Talk!
Peace be with you, and I hope you keep tuning in every Monday for our new episode. Do you listen to the actual podcasts? That's where you'll find the real meat; the blog posts are just my introduction of the topic, and I'm not the scholar of the two of us. I just love Jesus, and pray that that's enough. Deacon Tim both loves Jesus and is a great student of Christianity.
Posted by: Cyndi | February 10, 2008 at 12:21 PM
Oh, I get it. Dissenting opinions are not accepted here. Again, the lack of knowledge of Catholic and Baptist (or shall we say Protestant) doctrine is amazing. If the awareness was there then you would realize that there is no way both could be saved because they are diametrically opposed to each other.
Bruce, just take your Merton books with you and "come out" of your papal closet. :)
The foolishness was not about you. It was about the post. Talk about reading into things.
DT
Posted by: DT | February 11, 2008 at 07:50 AM
"It is mysterious, but possible, that Christ saves a person who in his own mind has consciously rejected Jesus, when in actuality, deep in this person's heart, he has a connection with Jesus that is very real or is, for the purpose of salvation, real enough."
Or, It is mysterious, but possible, that Christ doesn't save a person who in his own mind has consciously rejected Jesus, because in actuality, deep in this person's dead heart, he has no connection with Jesus that is very real because no one can believe for the purpose of salvation, unless he has been regenerated and chosen of God.
It is written: Chose this day whom you will serve. A conscious decision. Jesus said: Unless you believe that I Am, the eternal God, you will die in your sins. A conscious decision.
Maybe what we have are spineless preachers, allegedly sent by God, who are simply unwilling to make a stand. There is no such thing as a mental Christ. Faith without works is dead. And an apostate Roman Catholic Church, which preachers anopther gospel of baptismal regeneration was rejected by God long ago.
Posted by: Ken Silva | February 11, 2008 at 08:16 AM
1. Non christians have nothing to say about the church. We are to judge ourselves when necessary. 1 Cor 5:12
What about Jude's letter and 2 Peter 2. You would throw them out also.
2. Love is never defined scripturally. The pseudo-church defines it as "One Life To Live" defines it.
The God who is love sent Israel into exile. That was a loving act as it ended the apostasy (for time) and preserved the remnant.He disciplines those whom he loves heb 12:5-7
According to John 1 Jesus as Word was always there, therefore he was there when the Lord killed the first-born of Egypt and ordered Joshua to annihilate people groups. I heard one liberal dolt who said that those were just stories. God would never do that.Because he is looooove.
We forget that first and formeost, God is sovereign in all things. He is omnipotent,omnipresent and completely prescient which includes having full foreknowledge of everything. He makes the rules and gives revealation.
Rev 19 reveals the "affable" Jesus who is coming back.
Rev 1 reveals Him as he is right now. Not the "Ghandiesque" moron that the pseudo-church portrays Him as.
Read a good history or the early church. roman catholicism was created through the merging of the empire and paganism with a dash of Jesus tossed in. Mariolotry, transubstantiation etc are not biblical in foundation and the canonized saints,(another unbiblcal practice) as well as the church fathers are not infallible. There is no ecclesiastical heirarchy or vicar of Christ in the true church. there is only the Body governed by the Head.
Posted by: Chris P. | February 11, 2008 at 08:50 AM
Chris- I agree completely. Non-Christians have no place in evaluating Christian doctrine. However, Jesus was first and foremost an observant Jew. That fact gives me standing in this discussion.
The simple fact is twoedgetalk is a CATHOLIC podcast. Cyndi and Tim are both devout practicing Catholics. When you enter another's home, you do so with respect. Clearly, the fact that Cyndi has not deleted the dissenting opinions makes clear, it is not as DT claims a matter of dissenting opinions not being welcome. It is a matter of doing so with respect.
Chris may not agree with the practice of canonizing Saints. Mr. Sliva does not believe there could be more than one path to heaven. DT believes that calling a person's closest held spiritual beliefs isn't about attacking the person's heart. Clearly, all three men are entitled to their beliefs on these matters. However, I am telling you..........That when you come to a CATHOLIC podcast, you can expect to hear CATHOLIC beliefs. In twoedgetalk's case from intelligent thinking committed podcasters, who have already carefully thought through their religion and are not likely to change their views based upon your comments. That is a simple reality. It appears to this one listener who thoroughly enjoys Tim and Cyndi's podcast and the window it provides to their faith, who has found over time, that they often engage in animated respectful dialogue with their listeners of varying faiths, that the advisarial commentors are doing nothing more than baying at the moon.
Posted by: Linda | February 11, 2008 at 10:08 AM
I am sad to see that you have attracted the scorn of Reverend Silva, DT, and Chris P. Don't expect them to respect your house. In fact, Reverend Silva doesn't even allow people into his house. He makes everyone stand outside while he writes and says anything he wants.
DT is right. Thomas Merton played a BIG part in changing my thinking about Catholics. HE also helped turn me into an antiwar activist.
Dorothy Day and Richard Rohrs were two other writers that I found extremely helpful.
DT, go back and read your comment to ME.Kinda hard to read into a comment addressed to me personally. But if the spirit displayed on this site is ignorant and foolish I am glad to be a part of that group.
Bruce
Posted by: Bruce Gerencser | February 11, 2008 at 10:53 AM
Bruce,
You said "DT, go back and read your comment to ME.Kinda hard to read into a comment addressed to me personally. But if the spirit displayed on this site is ignorant and foolish"
Did you write the post "Are Catholics Saved?"?
I wrote the phrase "Ignorance is understandable; foolish(ness) is not" to the writer of "Are Catholics Saved?"
Just because you are a contributor to CRN.INFO let's leave those discussions there.
And like Iggy and the others there remember one thing. Ken, me and all the others can have blogs that allow comments or do not allow comments. It is totally up to the site/blog owner. Would not agree? If so, then get off that soapbox.
Again, dissenting opinions are not too welcome here. I will say that Linda was cordial. You have been the dart thrower.
Again, you need to drop the Baptist name tag if you are going to hold to your Catholic views.
DT
Posted by: DT | February 11, 2008 at 02:02 PM