What's the Deal with Catholics and Birth Control?

Warning:  This show may make you squirm.  It may make you mad.  You may think we've gone too far.  In this podcast, Deacon Tim lays out why contraception is not God's plan for marriage (even for non-Catholics!), and even if you think you will disagree with him, it's worth a listen - with an open mind and spirit.

Actually, there's a pretty strong precedent for this viewpoint.....for the first 1930 years of Christianity, all Christians believed birth control was immoral.  Whether you buy these views or not, we think they are worth thinking about - after all, is there any more important issue than the creation of life?

In case you're getting tired of us asking you to examine your own life :), next week we'll place some of these marriage and family issues in a cultural context.  So, if this show left you squirmy and mad, next week you'll be off the hook - don't give up on us!

To download, Right-click and save this link:
Download 031_contraception.mp3

To play now, click HERE and go to "031 Contraception".

Comments

[Bob Cleveland]

Actually, I'm not at all put off by this one. But there are some areas of disagreement, and if any of them infringe upon your position re: the Pope, my apologies up front.

First, I don't buy that our sexuality is indicative of being made in God's image. Monkeys and kangaroos have sexuality too. The word "Image" in that verse is "tselem", which denotes a phantom, a representative, an illusion, a resemblance. And since monkeys aren't made in God's image (at least God hasn't said that), then the "image" referred to must be other than the physical attributes. And the great differentiation between man and all other animals is that we're spiritual beings and they're not.

Secondly I don't buy that the command to multiply is applicable to all men. I buy that it is applicable to manKIND. Otherwise you personally would be under a command to fill the earth. I don't think you want to bear six billion children. And the "great commission" of Matthew 28:18-20 would not be for the church (organizationally), but rather for the people. That would require everyone to travel to a foreign country to evangelize and make disciples.

The scripture referencing depriving one another (of sex) states specifically that the time apart is "so that you may devote yourself to prayer". Even the term "natural family planning" suggest that's not the case. That would mean that, as my lost brother once said, "natural family planning" merely substitutes a thermometer and a calendar for a condom. The purpose is to avoid pregnancy.

Tim is right on, about men learning how their wives' bodies function. We're not comfortable with that, but I learned long ago that my relationship with, and my duties toward, Peg were not contingent on my comfort. Being a Christian isn't about comfort, or happiness; it's about holiness. One of the best times in our married life was when Peg went through menopause. When the moods hit .. and some were real lollapaloozas .. we sat down and had a talk. I told her my only concern was for her and that I not do anything that upset her. She explained it wasn't me, it was the hormone thing. So when she'd cry or yell, or sulk, I had a particular way of looking to her, and she had a little signal she gave me that said it was hormones. I'd told her that all of it was ok with me, and I just wanted affirmation that it wasn't caused by something I'd done. I think she was reassured by my assurances that her moods wouldn't bother me (other than the fact that I don't like her to suffer for ANY reason).

It was a good time in our lives.

The matter of trusting God is a fine line. Deacon Tim's references to that could as easily be applied to my health when I am sick. Don't treat that arthritis, just trust God. I know, that's stupid (to me, anyway).

Part of my positions, I think, stem from the fact that I buy into the Baptist principle of competency of the soul. We're responsible for what we believe and the church is a gathering of believers, assembled for the edification of the body to carry out the Kingdom work. It's not an organization which has any Spiritual "control" over its members, much as a husband may have spiritual responsibilities over his wife, but not spiritual control.

Well I wrote a book. Sorry. And oh by the way, these are only my personal Pentecostal Calvinistic Southern Baptist views. Like Paul said, I received my doctrine from no man.

[Bob Cleveland]

Oh yes ... at my age, not much makes me squirm, other than certain things for which they advertise cures on infomercials.

[Heather]

What do I do if I am called to follow the church's teachings on contraceptive, but my husband will not see the value? I have struggled with this topic for a long time, and my husband has only recently returned to going to weekly mass with me and my children. I'm not sure how to change his mind with this.

[Ann S]

Hmm...

Lots to think about. Not sure that I agree with some parts, but still a lot to think about!!

[Miz Booshay]

Deacon Tim and Cindy,
I hope you don't mind if I give a little advice. Feel free to disagree with me :o)

Dear Heather,

I think there is hope in that your husband is coming back to mass with you.
Amen.

Elizabeth Elliot always says to talk with your husband about it, once.
Then leave it in God's hands.
You can pray every day (and night) about it.
Pleading for God to soften his heart.
Asking God to give you peace.

But leave it at the cross, once you have talked about it.

Nagging doesn't work.
But the Holy Spirit does.
And the Holy Spirit has perfect timing.

Here is a Bible verse that has meant a lot to me over the years.

In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 1 Pet 3.1-2

My husband was not a believer for the first 17 years of our marriage.

About two and a half years after he asked God to be a part of his life again...
God rewarded us with a fouth child.
(There is a ten year age span)

Children are always a reward.
Psalm - Chapter 127:3

In Christ,
Donna

[Cyndi]

You guys are amazing - Miz Booshay and Bob, you guys need your own podcast! Bob, you clearly have the marriage thing figured out - if you could find menopause a wonderful time, then you clearly can find God's goodness in everything!

Miz Booshay, what an inspiring message! Heather, God knows your heart; He knows your dilemma, and He's there with you. Miz Booshay is right; I think prayer is the only answer.

Bob, when I get time this week, I'll try to address some of your specifics, unless Deacon Tim beats me to it - go for it, Tim! Deacon Tim is leaving for Ireland this week, though, so he may not have time for us!

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful responses - you're taking it much better than I thought you might!

Peace be with you, podcast friends! Heather, I'll join with you in prayer!

[Miz Booshay]

Oh Heather.
Cyndi is a mighty prayer warrior.

She gets in touch with all of her buddies in heaven....and watch the miracles happen :o)

[Deacon Tim]

I'd like to respond to Bob's comment that man's and woman's sexuality do not reflect God's image. It is obvious from Genesis 2 that Adam is not satisfied with the animals and birds that God brought to him. It is also obvious that when Adam first sees Eve's body, he immediately perceives that she is different from the animals and birds. So he exclaims, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh." It is as if Adam says, "Here is a body that expresses the person, a body that reveals a soul," which the bodies of the animals did not and could not do.

The creation of the two bodies of Adam and Eve, in their very sexuality, reveals the image of God in that they are distinctive and yet made for communion, just like the 3 persons of the Trinity. Man and woman are most in the image of God in their communion, their one flesh union ("the two of them became one body"). They can now give as God gives, love as God loves, which Adam could have never done before Eve came along. The exchange of gifts between Adam and Eve as male and female lead to a participation in God's own creative power and can result in a new human life, with a body and soul. "I have produced a man with the help of the Lord!" Eve proclaims. Gen. 4:1

[Cyndi]

Bob addresses an important point when he talks about substituting a "thermometer and calendar for a condom" - this may be how some couples practice NFP (natural family planning), but that's not the proper mindset. There should always still be a spirit of openness to life, and trust in God's plans, when a couple engages in sex, even if they have decided that they aren't quite ready for more kids. God does not demand for us to have a million kids, but He does want to be part of the conversation as a recognition that He is allowing us to participate with Him in a potentially life-giving act.

He has created a woman's body with predictable cycles so that we can plan our families, yet we believe that He doesn't appreciate it when we close off the act to the life-giving properties that He designed for sex.

Thanks for stating your concerns, Bob, and you always do it in is such a gracious Southern Baptist, Calvinistic, Pentecostal way! It's good to have someone disagree with your faith - it causes me to think through why I believe as I do.

Peace be with you! Cyndi

[Bob Cleveland]

Cyndi: As you do, me.

[Heather]

Thank you all. I appreciate all of your input. I am so glad to have found this podcast. It is truly nourishing to the soul. I will let all my Bible Study ladies in on your podcast!

[Cyndi]

Heather,
I tried to email you, but couldn't find the address on your blog........anyway, all I was going to tell you was that I decided to ask JPII to join us in praying for your husband about this issue. I couldn't think of a better prayer warrior! Peace, Cyndi

Thanks for spreading the word to your Bible study ladies. In case this topic doesn't interest them, there are a variety of issues addressed in the archives.

[Cyndi]

Bob,
Huh?

[Bob Cleveland]

Cyndi:

You said ... " ... it causes me to think through why I believe as I do."

[Linda]

I will say this Cyndi and Deacon Tim .......your not timid!

"I have produced a man with the help of the Lord!" Eve proclaims. Gen. 4:1

That verse bears repeating!

The problem with contraception, is that human sexuality is G-d drawing a man and a woman to join with him in the miracle of creation, the human forms supply the seeds, and G-d breath the soul. Contraception takes leaves G-d out in the cold.

There is a clear difference between sexuality and mating instincts. Monkeys and kangarros have mating instincts, humans pocess sexuality. You can not remove G-d from the menstrual cycle, the sexual act, or contraception.....without losing the spirituality connected with the act.

I realize this might not be in line with Christian view, but it is where my Jewish heart resides.

[Jenny from Chicago]

I just found your site through Nan at Life is Like a Lunchbox. I am so blessed to have found you! I will start reading every day.

[Barb]

I finally had time to listen to this wonderful podcast and I'm left with the thought, "If men and women would only understand the gift and purpose of sex - unity and procreation - how would that change the casualness it (sex) seems to have today in our society.
I have fallen for the popular idea that procreation is in my lap, my decision. I have casually, without even prayer, taken that into my hands, not God's. I can see it really is a matter of control and not handing over it nor trusting my Creator with this aspect of my life, our marriage.
It is good to be counter-cultural when it is counter to the world (selfishness) and pointing to the Kingdom of God (Blessedness).

[Andre]

My family has truly been blessed by using NFP vs. Birth Control. The most amazing thing about it is that it creates a time during the month which my wife can be assured that my loving acts are not for the purpose of having sex, but rather just there because I love her. Not many people talk about this, but it is really important!

[JES]

Hello. I know that I am 2 years late on this conversation, but I just came upon this today and I am finding myself in need to comment. I come from a long line of Catholics on both sides of my family and there has been both good and bad along with it. For example, my Grandma, who is a DEVOUT Catholic, decided to leave her husband in 1959 who was beating her on a daily basis. Once she got the divorce, the church abandoned her and told her not to come back because she did not stay with her husband. She still stayed a Catholic and goes to church to this day, but when I heard that story, it was one of the first of many times I have questioned the Catholic church. The second issue that made me question what I had been told my whole life was the view on contraception. I believe this is an outdated ideal that is not relevant in today's world. I have spent a lot of time working with the poor who, in this part of the world, are very much Catholic. Many of them have so many children because they refuse contraception, despite the fact that they are living on the street and cannot afford to feed themselves, let alone their children. People can prey and hope and trust in God as much as they please, but so often it does not change the situation for these poor people. Much to the dismay of my family, I have decided that it is socially irresponsible for the Catholic church, and other religions for that matter, to put this upon people - especially the poor. It is easy to say that this is all alright when sitting in your comfortable, warm homes but I do not believe that many see how this really affects those in the real world. I am not trying to offend anyone here today, it is just that this is something that I feel quite strongly about and I felt compelled to share my opinion.

[beth aka confusedhomemaker]

In response to what JES wrote about the poor & contraception is that Mother Teresa taught the poor NFP based solely on Cervical Mucous. It is free, highly effective & requires no higher educational background to learn (in fact, you don't even need to learn how to read to learn NFP). This is why NFP is perfect for all families regardless of income, unlike contraception which requires money & literacy to properly use (or consent to).

Further, families that have a serious or just reason to avoid can do so with NFP. Obviously this should be done prayerfully. But really handing out condoms or other forms of contraception doesn't reduce poverty if it did then the UN's programs would be highly successful & poverty would be just about gone in the areas where it passes off contraception as the end of poverty but it is not. Poverty still exists in areas where contraception is available because contraception can't fix what is a larger social problem of helping thy neighbor.

Contraception is also not a new idea. It's been around for many centuries. What changed was our view toward human life, sexuality & our relationship with God.

However, I am very sad to read about the pain JES's Grandma suffered. The Church is also made of people who sometimes err on how they treat each other.