Come Holy Spirit!

If your life lacks interest, perhaps you need to invite the Holy Spirit for a visit!  When you read through the Acts of the Apostles, signs and wonders were everywhere - never a dull moment for those Apostles.  What about now?  We'd like to re-introduce you to the often-forgotten third person of the Trinity.   In fact, we encourage you to say, "Come Holy Spirit" this week, then watch.....we're betting something glorious happens!  BUT - you've gotta post your experience on the blog - you can't keep it to yourself! Click "Comment" below and join the Two Edge Talk community - all you have to do is start typing!

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Comments

[Miz Booshay]

Oh! This topic looks fab,

I gotta run and post on my blog first...but I will be back to listen in a few...
cause...
Eternity is long..and your podcast is short :o)

Short and very sweet!

[Miz Booshay]

What a blessing this podcast was to me.

Who knew that one could be a speaking in tongues, spirit-filled Catholic.
It's wonderful!

I have heard comments to the effect that those gifts were just for the disciples.

Not for this time.

And so when I had friends who would speak in tongues or my daughter would mention a friend of hers speaking in tongues, I was a little wary.

Hearing your testimony was a blessing to me...and I read 1 Cor. this afternoon.
Paul is writing to the Corinthians, not just to the diciples. So it seems he is speaking to all of us.

Yes?

I believe the Holy Spirit gave me the gift of faith.

My daughter and I had a very honest discussion about the Holy Spirit after I had her listen to your podcast, too.

She sees Him (the Holy Spirit) at work quite a bit in her worship/prayer group.
Especially when they ask!

I always loved singing Psalm 51:10 in church when I was a young girl.

It's worth singing....every day.

God bless you!

[Simply Jenn]

Wow Cyndi and Deacon Tim, I will definitely be starting and ending my mornings with prayer to the Holy Spirit and I will come back if anything is revealed to me.

Miz Booshay- reading your comments made the song "Come Spirit Come" which I sang in a beautiful arrangement when I sang in the choir pop into my head. I had no idea what Psalm 51 was, but as soon as I heard the song (and felt compelled to sing it to myself) I looked up the words and that's what it was. It is one of my most favorite songs ever and the arrangement is amazingly beautiful. I'm thinking of finding the arrangement and singing it with someone else. Thank you for somehow bringing that to me with your words.

[Simply Jenn]

Sorry, I meant 1 Corinthians which I assume is what the song was based on, or at least is directly related to.

[Kitchen Madonna]

Cyndi, we have something else in common. Who knew? Of course the Holy Spirit knew! When I first started to desire to speak in tongues, I started reading all about it. I was skeptical. I was also Episcopalian at the time. So when I went to someone's house where a worship service was going on, it was like these Pentacostal and Evangelical folks didn't know what to make of me. Well, I kept falling out in the spirit and laughing and the guy said that the Holy Spirit was working on me. What he really meant was I was resisting. Finally, I was speaking in tongues, sitting on the living room floor and one of my neigbors says,"What's a nice Episcopalian girl like you doing speaking in tongues on the living room floor?"

The point is, the Holy Spirit is moving everywhere and I loved your discussion about that and how people from different churches treat it. For some Charismatics, that is the end all and be all - to speak in tongues. I don't hang around with one particular "brand" of Christian Catholic people but hearing your podcast reminded me to use this gift of prayer more. So I did all afternoon yesterday, and the Holy Spirit worked on me.

Praise God!

[Snafu]

New intro music is courtesy of snafu. Enjoy.

[Jenni in KS]

Wow! What a great topic and a wonderful podcast! I have a lot more to say on this subject, but I've got an afternoon of appointments. I don't want to rush the important stuff, so I'll try to come back later.
I will tell you that I met someone when my kids were all quite young who described herself as a charismatic Catholic and said there really are quite a few others like her. It surprised me as much as when I first saw flyers for a group called Jews for Jesus, although I don't know why I was surprised in either case.
Oh, and I clearly remember the first time I spoke in tongues. It was shortly after I accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour, and I was three. I was already quite a talker, and it was not toddler gibberish or like making up a pretend language. It was simply perfect prayer, and something I do to this day.

[Bob Cleveland]

I don't know which is more surprising .. a Catholic lady who speaks in tongues, or a Catholic Deacon who doesn't go all ballistic at it.

The Holy Spirit gave me that gift some years ago, too. And I wasn't seeking it at that time, either. I'd stopped asking for it about 20 years before. In fact, I blogged about it at:

http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2006/06/im-bored-lets-talk-about-tongues.html.

and:

http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2007/01/big-stone-pillars-steven-hawking-me.html

and, finally, at:

http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2007/01/stephen-hawking-big-stone-pillars-me.html

I do vary in a couple places, I suppose. The miraculous gift of healing does not seem to appear today, and the gift of wisdom seems to be the only one in which it's suggested that God will grant it if we ask. Although as you'll see my blog, healing is something God has done through me but I certainly don't have authority over illnesses, as was true with the apostles.

Interesting, interesting podcast, and post there, ma'am.

[Simply Jenn]

I don't mean to be ignorant, but could someone please give me a brief definition of speaking in tongues? Or at least what that means for you? I've looked on the internet but I'd really like a personal interpretation.

[Bob Cleveland]

Jenn:

The word for "tongues" in the NT is gloossais, which means a language, especially one not naturally acquired or learned.

Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14:4 that it was speaking only to God. He also said he spoke in the tongues of men and the tongues of angels, which indicates the possibility of a heavenly language (since angels may speak that, there).

Beyond that, I haven't a clue. I do know that the gift manifests itself, normally, in times of prayer, praise, or worship.

If you haven't checked the links I provided, they'll pretty well chronicle my experience.

[Cyndi]

Jenni in KS.....Jews for Jesus, Charismatic Catholics - enigmatic, eh? Funny comparison!

Bob Cleveland....I want to meet all those lifeless Catholics you've known in your lifetime - they need to listen to our podcast! I'm sad that we're so surprising to you! I know lots of Catholics who are MUCH more spirit-filled than I am! I'm glad you wrote; I was just about to put out an APB for prayer for you because I read on your blog about your TIA last weekend, and it worried me that you hadn't commented yet! I guess you can be assured that the Two Edge Talk community will start praying for you if you miss a week!

Simply Jen (and others).....about my "speaking in tongues".....for me, it is a completely private form of prayer. There are times, when I'm by myself, that I'll vocalize it, and it just sounds like gibberish. I don't really pay attention to what's coming out; mainly, I just want to not have my mind involved in my prayer. It seems like a direct line to God to me, though it doesn't feel magical or mystical. I always question whether I actually have the gift since it really doesn't "feel" like anything, and I wonder if I am just babbling something. BUT, I do know for certain that I am praying, and it keeps my mind from getting involved, so I figure it must be a good thing. Maybe someone out there can instruct me further?

[Bob Cleveland]

Cyndi: For starters, I never said I knew a lot of Catholics. In fact, I don't. I mostly hang around Baptists (that's the equivalent to saying I live in Alabama). There are about 10 Baptist churches within 10 minutes of my house.

All I know about Catholics is what I've heard, which I'm sure is every bit as accurate as what I've heard about Assemblies of God or Methodists or Presbyterians, from Baptists, which is to say I don't know anything at all.

But I am a reasonably quick learn, sister.

Oh, thanks for the prayer thing. I'm back to as normal as a Pentecostal Calvinistic Southern Baptist can be.

[Jenni in KS]

Here’s a little bit of what I was thinking about yesterday. I’m trying to break it up a little and keep it brief, but as you can see, I’m not very good at that, LOL! I apologize if it's too long.

Holy Spirit is used two ways in Scripture. It is used of God who is both holy and spirit, and it is used of the gift of holy spirit which God first made available on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Act chapter 2.

This gift was only available after and because of all that Jesus Christ accomplished through his death and resurrection. Since the fall of man in Genesis 3, man was an incomplete being, having only body, and soul and in need of redemption. Jesus Christ was that redeemer. Through his death and resurrection, Jesus Christ not only paid for our sins and made salvation possible (as if that weren’t enough!), he accomplished what was necessary for us to once more be complete beings as God intended us to be and to have that spirit which would allow us to have more perfect fellowship with God. Throughout the Old Testament, that spirit was only available to certain men of God and only upon them conditionally. Because of Christ’s perfect work, we who accept him as lord and savior receive salvation and have that spirit permanently.

Dh and I talked about this last night. We both grew up being taught that it was receiving the gift of holy spirit that really changed Peter. I hadn’t thought beyond what I had been taught about that, but he pointed out that, although holy spirit certainly did change Peter, the change began before that when Jesus Christ appeared in his resurrected form. All those who had been “behind closed doors for fear of the Jews” began meeting daily in the temple before the day of Pentecost—as Christ instructed them to do. Seeing Jesus Christ in those days after the Resurrection and before the Ascension, receiving instructions, having the Old Testament prophecies concerning himself explained (remember the two men on the road to Emmaus?), and seeing that physical proof that he had been raised gave the disciples the courage to meet in the temple and wait for the gift they had been told was coming. After receiving that gift of holy spirit, they were all the more emboldened. The gift of holy spirit certainly did change them, but the change began with the resurrection.

Speaking in tongues is only one small part of that gift of holy spirit. I Corinthians 12 explains much about the gift of holy spirit and its various operations and manifestations.
I Corinthians 12:4-11:
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
“For to one is given by the Spirit...” many have taken to mean to one individual one or another of these manifestations/operations/gifts is given. If you look at the previous verse, however, it says, “But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.” Then it goes on to say “For to one.” The word profit (not prophet) is the antecedent and the “to one” which is being spoken of.

Verse 11 says that all these (all these manifestations/operations) work “that one and the selfsame Spirit” (one gift) “dividing to every man severally as he wills.” “As he wills” refers to as the man (the individual) wills. God does not overstep our freedom of will. We have to choose to accept Christ and be saved. When we do, we receive that gift of holy spirit, but it is up to us whether or not we choose to operate its various manifestations.

There are those who saved who do not feel comfortable with speaking in tongues or who do not know it is available to them. God does not force it on them. It is not a matter of me having the gift of tongues and another not having that gift or ability. It is a matter of knowing what is available and choosing to operate or use it.

The gift of holy spirit is a little like my computer. There are numerous tasks I am able to perform with my computer, but I can only use those which I know about and have learned how to use. Imagine the things I could do if I took the time to learn more about html code or all the other things available to me. There may be things I know about, but don’t use anyway. For example, dh sees little use for the internet, but he frequently asks me to help him find things on it. He could find things faster without having to wait for me if he wanted to, but he doesn’t like to use that capability. There is so much available to us through the use of computers, but if we don’t know about what is available or don’t choose to use it, we will not benefit from computers as much as we could.

The same thing goes for the holy spirit. It is one gift with different operations, uses, and benefits. If we choose not to use any of that, we still have it, but we are not benefiting from it as we could. We are still saved, and we still have that connection with God, but it’s like having a computer bought and paid for and allowing it to sit on your desk as a decoration or dust collector without ever turning it on. If we acknowledge and use only part of the operations (manifestations), we are better off, but we aren’t seeing the full potential and everything that God intended. If we know what is available and simply don’t take the time to learn more about how to operate it, it’s similar to what someone I know (no names or relationship given, just in case she reads this!) does on the computer-- puttering around, pushing buttons, getting inconsistent results, never remembering how she was able to accomplish the task last time, and getting extremely frustrated. There is no need for us to be frustrated or confused about using God’s gift of holy spirit. We have the instruction manual and (intelligible) tech support available to us! Plus, holy spirit comes with no glitches and needs no patches or program updates and is completely free since Jesus Christ already paid the price for us! Such a deal!

[Cyndi]

Jenni,
You, my dear, have the gift of teaching! As always, your insights will give me much to think about today (and longer).

Did you know there is a uniquely Catholic perspective on the walk to Emmaus? Here's the passage from Luke 24:30-32:

"When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight."

This breaking of the bread is what we understand as the Eucharist, and when Jesus gives this to them, they are able to recognize Him, to know Him for who He is. As He was walking with them and teaching them, they could understand Him on an intellectual level, but the breaking of the bread gave them an intimacy that was different than intellectualism. This is what D Tim and I have spoken about in prior podcasts; this is precisely what the Eucharist has done in our lives.

Thanks for listening - can't help but throw in a little Catholicism now and then! Jenni, thanks so much for taking time to light our path! Peace be with you, Cyndi

[Cyndi]

I hope everyone checks out the links Bob Cleveland posted which will take you to some pieces he wrote on the gifts of the Holy Spirit - very enlightening! Bob, the first one didn't work.....was it older? Thanks, Bob, and peace be with you.

[Bob Cleveland]

Cyndi: Well, it looks OK. I shall cut and paste it again here:

http://mightyfowl.blogspot.com/2006/06/im-bored-lets-talk-about-tongues.html

If you go to my blog, you can also click on the link to the June 2006 archive, on the right. It's the second posting there.

[Simply Jenn]

Bob, I'm glad you fixed that first link. I find it very interesting that my boss practices "reiki" which is laying your hands on a person and allowing "healing" to flow from you into the person you are working on. He says it's not a specific "I'm going to heal your headache" but more that the force behind it knows where the problem is and goes to the source. He doesn't do it in a religious manner but I can't help but wonder if what he does through that is what you did to the man in the circle. Maybe he has the gift of healing. Very thought-provoking.

[Simply Jenn]

I've been thinking about this a lot. The only gift that I can see in myself is prophecy. But, I'm not sure if you prophecy things which will happen to others or if you prophesize events in your own life.

I've had quite a few instances of "knowing" something before it happened. When I had my first miscarriage I knew I did not have a viable baby 6 weeks before the doctors discovered it.

Also, when pregnant with my last child I had a dream that someone (God?) told me that she be born early but that she would be fine, just small. She was born prematurely with some health issues but one of the main ones was that she was small for her gestational age.

I would be interested in other's opinions on this. Those are the two instances where I was very comforted and prepared for what would happen because of this "knowing" that came to me in my sleep. I don't, however, have any idea if that is what the bible is talking about.

[Bob Cleveland]

Jenn:

OK,OK, somebody has to jump in.

First, it was what it was. I never try to figure that sort of thing out.

Second, I the word "prophecy" means to speak for God. Sometimes that involves the future; more often it does not.

I personally do not look for advance knowledge of things, for to do so would negate the simple exercise of faith, and giving burdens to God and leaving them with Him.

The conventional (protestant) wisdom says that God is out of the "special revelation" business. He had to do that to get the Bible written, or at least that's how He did it. Since we have the Bible, now, we really do not need special revelation. But I hasten to add that God can do anything He wants, any time He wants, to anybody He wants.

I have other thoughts about it, too, which would be better set in the arena of email.

[Simply Jenn]

Thanks Bob. I don't look for advance knowledge either. It's not something I asked for or have even consciously thought about, it just happens sometimes. Do you have my email? If not it's on my site.

[Bob Cleveland]

Jenn:

No, I don't think I have your email addy.

Now I'll have to remember the "other thoughts". Durn. Probably ought to email it to me. Mine is on my profile, which you can access through my blog.

[Jenni in KS]

Bob (and everyone else, too),
I read the post you linked to, and have a thoughts. For the moment I'd like to focus on something you said at the beginning. I'm not sure what your final conclusion about this was, but in the beginning you refuted that all those who are saved should be able to speak in tongues based on how you interpreted the following verses in Mark 16.

Mark 16:17-18:
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I can't remember what I've been taught about what it says here about the serpents, but it does say *if* they drink any deadly thing with the emphasis seeming to be (to me) on the "it shall not harm them". There at least is no instruction to drink poison while speaking with tongues or at any other time. There also doesn't seem to be *instruction* per se to take up serpents, just that it will happen. Casting out devils and healing the sick are not things that would necessarily happen *all* the time 24/7, either, but they are things that could (and would/will/do) happen.

There is a record beginning in Acts 28:3 where Paul is gathering sticks for the fire and a viper fastens on his hand and bites him and Paul suffers no harm. A few verses later, Paul lays hands on Publius' father and heals him. The snake and the healing have nothing to do with one another, but they are incidents which happened close to the same time. Paul "handling" the snake was an accident and had nothing to do with manifesting the spirit, but both are evidence of God's power, healing, and protection.

I have heard (though never seen other than on an episode of X-Files) that some people handle snakes or do all sorts of wacky things when they speak in tongues. That certainly isn't God's fault since he has given clear instruction about how to properly operate the manifestations of the spirit in His Word. I believe I Corinthians 14 holds the bulk of those instructions. It is interesting that the last verse of that chapter says, "Let all things be done decently and in order."

[Bob Cleveland]

Jenni: First, I don't refute that all believers should speak in tongues, on the basis of that verse. I do maintain that verse doesn't say that we should. My refutation is based on other verses, specifically Paul's statements that the Holy Spirit gives gifts as He wills (not us), and his statements that not all speak in tongues, in a passage that deals with distribution of gifts in the body.

And I only refute that, when I'm told that speaking in an unknown tongue is the initial evidence of the "baptism in the Holy Ghost" (which is a concept I don't buy anyway). I was no more effective a servant after receiving that gift than I was before, that I can tell.

With reference to healing, we're told in the Bible that Jesus gave the apostles authority over illnesses. That strikes me as the gift of healing. They had the power to do that, and I do not. Just as well, as Paul tells me in Romans that I don't even know how to pray, anyway.

Like my pastor said one time: "I believe in faith healing, but I don't believe in faith healers". Amen to that.

And when God wants me to handle a snake, I figure He will put handles on snakes. Ain't seen that, yet.

[Bob Cleveland]

Oh ... my statements about the lady I worked with were to point up the fact that she believed 1/3 of a verse but not the other 2/3. I discounted her statements, on that basis, those 40 or so years ago.

[Cyndi]

Bob,
Here's an idea for a crazy religious pilgrimage........I know you're in Alabama, and you haven't met many Catholics. Are you close to Irondale, Alabama? It's the home of EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network), a global Catholic television network. I think you'd find real-live nuns and monks, some of whom have TV shows that have live audiences. You should go on a field trip and write up a report for the rest of us!